Karlheinz Schreiber returned to the Commons Ethics committee for the fourth time on Tuesday, Dec 11. As with the three previous meetings (Nov 29, Dec 4, and Dec 6) the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate. You can return to the beginning of this 'series,' by clicking here: Part I.
This isn't 24/7 for me...I have a life, you know
12:38 PM
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): Mr. Schreiber, you've produced to us a number of docs and some more today. Are there any other docs in your possession, anywhere, that could substantiate some of the things you're telling the cmte?
Schreiber: In what way?
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): well, sir, you've made a number of allegations and stmts...
Schreiber: perhaps you'd look at some of the docs I brought today...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): well, I was wondering if you have any other docs that could substantiate the info and the allegations you've been making.
Schreiber: depends on what it is. My lawyers are packed with all this material.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): when will we get this material?
Schreiber: we discussed this already.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (angry) no we haven't sir! Our understanding was that you'd produce all your docs, and now my understanding is that you've got more docs...what I'm interested in specifically is the docs that substantiate what you've told this cmte.
Schreiber: I'm looking for those. I tell you quite frankly, sir, I talked to my lawyer and he said, 'What the hell are you going to do w/all those docs?' when you look at what's actually relevant for your question and the cmte...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): I'm asking for the docs to substantiate the allegations you're making to the cmte
Schreiber: I was asked at the beginning to look at my files, prepare myself, and bring important material...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): Well, you've had two weeks! (angry man) I simply ask, Mr. Chairman, that the docs that you undertook to produce to us, we'd like those documents. When can we have them?
Schreiber: allow me to tell you, sir, it's not 24h day for just these things, I have to live also (*snerk*). Go through the docs I brought here first, and if the cmte wants more things, you have to tell me what you need. Otherwise, it's at times brings you nowhere, I'm here to help you, I'm not against you.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (flustered) Well...uh...I hope so.
Schreiber: well I asked for the inquiry--you all (conservatives) were obviously against it.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): sir, I'm simply asking for the docs, but it appears you're flustering so...
Schreiber: let me tell you something, you want to know how the business happened? The Trojan Horse to get the Charter flights in (***Tilson trying to interrupt***) the same people look for the same big money today, with the same procurement. This is what you should look at.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (resigned) alright...sir, you talked about the inquiry you're looking forward to. Is there anything that you're going to tell the inquiry that you haven't told the cmte?
Schreiber: yes. People and lawyers and cross-examination...quite a different basis. Need a lot of witnesses to testify. I tell the media all the time--it doesn't help-people don't tell the truth unless they're under oath and there are other people around who can tell if you're committing perjury. That is why I have three lawsuits and ask for the public inquiry. I think that's easy to understand.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): well, sir, you're under oath, could you tell us, are there any topics that you'll raise at the inquiry, that you haven't brought up here? Could you list them?
Schreiber: look at all the projects, how they're put together--they didn't drop from heaven. If there's no project, there's no money. The whole thing w/BHP was the agreement. Then came the project. And do you know what the amount was going to be? 360 billion dollars (leaning forward in his seat, for effect). The replacement of the M113. The Airbus was the beginning...when Bob Coates was Min DND, he came up w/4 000 armoured cars. Do you know how much it is? 3 billion dollars. Do you know what the procurement is today at DND, where Fred Doucet is again on 9 projects as a lobbyist?
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): I'm asking the questions here...
Schreiber: and I'm just telling you, it's the same today. More or less the same people, the fight for big money.
12:43 PM
Del Mastro (CPC): I want to go back to the letters you wrote to BM. The May 8, 2007 letter, I believe you've contradicted it here. You said on Tuesday that the 300K you paid to BM was not a kickback from the purchase of Airbus jets. You've sued him to get this money back b/c he hadn't done any services. Now the opposition members have suggested it was a bribe or a kickback, but I've never heard of anybody suing for a bribe or a kickback...you wouldn't go to court b/c you feel you didn't get value for your bribe or your kickback...
Schreiber: why do you mention this?
Del Mastro (CPC): was this money for consulting, yes or no?
Schreiber: yes, even if I would hate BM down to my last bone, which I don't, I wouldn't say things about him which are untrue. The agreement at Harrington Lake had nothing to do w/Airbus. How much more you want to hear this?
Del Mastro (CPC): I just wanted clarification...
(passing to Van Kesteren)
Van Kesteren (CPC): want to go on w/what Mr. Tilson started. You said you were the victim of a conspiracy involving the RCMP, the Bavarian prosecutors, and you spent a number of hours testifying before this cmte, but we haven't heard from you what is being covered-up. More specifically, I'm asking what is being covered up and what evidence you have.
Schreiber: at the beginning, it was very clearly an event from Alan Rock, and then, over the times...I was under the impression that the Liberals were driving this...and then, one day, Elmer MacKay sent a letter to Mr. Murray (RCMP) saying, "What you are doing is a face-saving, ass-covering action..." I agree with him.
Van Kesteren (CPC): you're doing it again. What specifically is being covered up?
Schreiber: after a while, all the wrong-doing from the officials w/RCMP and Min Justice is what the problem is...they're fighting like hell for their own personal clearance. E.g. the RCMP guy I said would be selling hotdogs one day...my question is, when he was the one who was leaking things, and had to be fired for speaking w/a journalist and violating his oath. What about the others who did the same thing? Mrs. Cameron (phonetic-sp???) was a police informant and he was entitled to speak to her, so why was he fired? This goes on and on. I am suing these people and they are against me at the same time. Same group who went to Germany and prepared the record against me, sent it to themselves and prepared an arrest warrant. Are you telling me that's not a conflict of interest? And now, Conservatives, thank the Lord, now we are going to clear up this horrible mess the liberals (made). And then I found out, wait a minute, the pressure comes from there, what's the reason for this? (why did nothing happened after Harper became PM)?
Van Kesteren (CPC): it sounds like you have a persecution complex. There are generalities you're telling us about...
Schreiber: simple. Simple. Do what I asked for--try me in a Canadian court. How much I would love this, when Canadians find out what a mess the RCMP, the Min. Justice--I would love to disclose this to Canadians. I would think you'd want this, b/c it's a huge mess.
Continue to the final installment, Part VIII ("It started in Alberta..."), or return to Part VI ("No room for any bargains with me").
This isn't 24/7 for me...I have a life, you know
12:38 PM
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): Mr. Schreiber, you've produced to us a number of docs and some more today. Are there any other docs in your possession, anywhere, that could substantiate some of the things you're telling the cmte?
Schreiber: In what way?
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): well, sir, you've made a number of allegations and stmts...
Schreiber: perhaps you'd look at some of the docs I brought today...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): well, I was wondering if you have any other docs that could substantiate the info and the allegations you've been making.
Schreiber: depends on what it is. My lawyers are packed with all this material.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): when will we get this material?
Schreiber: we discussed this already.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (angry) no we haven't sir! Our understanding was that you'd produce all your docs, and now my understanding is that you've got more docs...what I'm interested in specifically is the docs that substantiate what you've told this cmte.
Schreiber: I'm looking for those. I tell you quite frankly, sir, I talked to my lawyer and he said, 'What the hell are you going to do w/all those docs?' when you look at what's actually relevant for your question and the cmte...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): I'm asking for the docs to substantiate the allegations you're making to the cmte
Schreiber: I was asked at the beginning to look at my files, prepare myself, and bring important material...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): Well, you've had two weeks! (angry man) I simply ask, Mr. Chairman, that the docs that you undertook to produce to us, we'd like those documents. When can we have them?
Schreiber: allow me to tell you, sir, it's not 24h day for just these things, I have to live also (*snerk*). Go through the docs I brought here first, and if the cmte wants more things, you have to tell me what you need. Otherwise, it's at times brings you nowhere, I'm here to help you, I'm not against you.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (flustered) Well...uh...I hope so.
Schreiber: well I asked for the inquiry--you all (conservatives) were obviously against it.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): sir, I'm simply asking for the docs, but it appears you're flustering so...
Schreiber: let me tell you something, you want to know how the business happened? The Trojan Horse to get the Charter flights in (***Tilson trying to interrupt***) the same people look for the same big money today, with the same procurement. This is what you should look at.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (resigned) alright...sir, you talked about the inquiry you're looking forward to. Is there anything that you're going to tell the inquiry that you haven't told the cmte?
Schreiber: yes. People and lawyers and cross-examination...quite a different basis. Need a lot of witnesses to testify. I tell the media all the time--it doesn't help-people don't tell the truth unless they're under oath and there are other people around who can tell if you're committing perjury. That is why I have three lawsuits and ask for the public inquiry. I think that's easy to understand.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): well, sir, you're under oath, could you tell us, are there any topics that you'll raise at the inquiry, that you haven't brought up here? Could you list them?
Schreiber: look at all the projects, how they're put together--they didn't drop from heaven. If there's no project, there's no money. The whole thing w/BHP was the agreement. Then came the project. And do you know what the amount was going to be? 360 billion dollars (leaning forward in his seat, for effect). The replacement of the M113. The Airbus was the beginning...when Bob Coates was Min DND, he came up w/4 000 armoured cars. Do you know how much it is? 3 billion dollars. Do you know what the procurement is today at DND, where Fred Doucet is again on 9 projects as a lobbyist?
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): I'm asking the questions here...
Schreiber: and I'm just telling you, it's the same today. More or less the same people, the fight for big money.
12:43 PM
Del Mastro (CPC): I want to go back to the letters you wrote to BM. The May 8, 2007 letter, I believe you've contradicted it here. You said on Tuesday that the 300K you paid to BM was not a kickback from the purchase of Airbus jets. You've sued him to get this money back b/c he hadn't done any services. Now the opposition members have suggested it was a bribe or a kickback, but I've never heard of anybody suing for a bribe or a kickback...you wouldn't go to court b/c you feel you didn't get value for your bribe or your kickback...
Schreiber: why do you mention this?
Del Mastro (CPC): was this money for consulting, yes or no?
Schreiber: yes, even if I would hate BM down to my last bone, which I don't, I wouldn't say things about him which are untrue. The agreement at Harrington Lake had nothing to do w/Airbus. How much more you want to hear this?
Del Mastro (CPC): I just wanted clarification...
(passing to Van Kesteren)
Van Kesteren (CPC): want to go on w/what Mr. Tilson started. You said you were the victim of a conspiracy involving the RCMP, the Bavarian prosecutors, and you spent a number of hours testifying before this cmte, but we haven't heard from you what is being covered-up. More specifically, I'm asking what is being covered up and what evidence you have.
Schreiber: at the beginning, it was very clearly an event from Alan Rock, and then, over the times...I was under the impression that the Liberals were driving this...and then, one day, Elmer MacKay sent a letter to Mr. Murray (RCMP) saying, "What you are doing is a face-saving, ass-covering action..." I agree with him.
Van Kesteren (CPC): you're doing it again. What specifically is being covered up?
Schreiber: after a while, all the wrong-doing from the officials w/RCMP and Min Justice is what the problem is...they're fighting like hell for their own personal clearance. E.g. the RCMP guy I said would be selling hotdogs one day...my question is, when he was the one who was leaking things, and had to be fired for speaking w/a journalist and violating his oath. What about the others who did the same thing? Mrs. Cameron (phonetic-sp???) was a police informant and he was entitled to speak to her, so why was he fired? This goes on and on. I am suing these people and they are against me at the same time. Same group who went to Germany and prepared the record against me, sent it to themselves and prepared an arrest warrant. Are you telling me that's not a conflict of interest? And now, Conservatives, thank the Lord, now we are going to clear up this horrible mess the liberals (made). And then I found out, wait a minute, the pressure comes from there, what's the reason for this? (why did nothing happened after Harper became PM)?
Van Kesteren (CPC): it sounds like you have a persecution complex. There are generalities you're telling us about...
Schreiber: simple. Simple. Do what I asked for--try me in a Canadian court. How much I would love this, when Canadians find out what a mess the RCMP, the Min. Justice--I would love to disclose this to Canadians. I would think you'd want this, b/c it's a huge mess.
Continue to the final installment, Part VIII ("It started in Alberta..."), or return to Part VI ("No room for any bargains with me").
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