Karlheinz Schreiber returned to the Commons Ethics committee for the third time on Thursday, December 6. As with the two previous meetings (Nov 29 and Dec 4), the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate. You can return to the beginning of this 'series,' by clicking here: Part I.
Bless this Mess
12:22 PM
Asselin (BQ): Did I understand correctly that Doucet asked for 300K for BM?
Schreiber: no. There was no amount discussed.
Asselin (BQ): you contributed financially to BM at Mr. Doucet's request?
Schreiber: yes
Asselin (BQ): did I understand correctly that you contributed 30K to Jean Charest's campaign?
Schreiber: yes
Asselin (BQ): were you aware that Doucet was the chief organizer of Peter MacKay's campaign for the leadership of the PC party?
Schreiber: didn't know at the time. (some confusion about whether Asselin is asking about Charest or MacKay)
Asselin (BQ): was it fred doucet or elmer mackay who came to you for the campaign of Peter MacKay? Schreiber, it's difficult to understand that you're a great friend of Elmer, the father, b/c you contributed to BM, you paid to Charest, but you didn't contribute to Peter MacKay's leadership campaign.
Schreiber: I contributed to the former PC party, not to these people, and I didn't have a relationship with Peter in those days.
Asselin (BQ): but you're a great friend of Elmer. Elmer is the father of the current Min Defence in the Harper gov. In Charest's case, you also made a contribution. I don't see why you were not asked to contribute to Peter's campaign as well.
Schreiber: I can only guess that he knew it would only become embarrassing. He's such a different character than his father. (*snerk*)
Asselin (BQ): if I understand correctly, you made no direct or indirect contribution to Peter MacKay's campaign?
Schreiber: no
Lavallée (BQ): coming back to the letter of threats you made to BM. While the info you threatened to disclose had to be important, you said you were prepared to disclose that BM had received money from GCI. But that meant you had to know why, how much and when. And that BM had to know that you knew. So he didn't give you a favourable response, tell us about it...go ahead. Tell us a story. (*smiles*)
Schreiber: when Doucet came w/his request, and Moores and Ouellet told me to stay out of it, I am waiting for the witnesses to come forward in an inquiry.
Lavallée (BQ): date of this interchange w/Doucet--transfer of money?
Schreiber: 92 or 93, don't know exactly.
Lavallée (BQ): BM was PM at that time. For 10 years that you were dealing with GCI, GCI dealing with BM...why was GCI dealing w/BM--there were a number of contracts involved w/PC gov.
Schreiber: it was my understanding since the early 80s that BM would help GCI and that GCI would hire BM after he ceased to be PM
Lavallée (BQ): yes, they did work well together. Your contract was for AB was for 1.8 million, you made 20 million commission and then IAL was paid by Thyssen a commission of 3.9 million CAD. For the LAV plant. The coast guard 26 million, your company, IAL got $880 000 and GCI about a million. i.e. Lots of examples in just a few years. Under BM's gov, you got contracts of $2 billion for your clients, b/c of your friend, former PM BM. And the money you gave BM in the end...equalled less than 1.5%
Schreiber: IAL is not my company. The commissions were not for me, but for GCI. I gave Moores' correspondence w/Strauss to the cmte on Tues. After the agreements have been made and Sinclair Stevens came to Germany and negotiated with Thyssen, Sinclair Stevens came to Bavaria and negotiated w/ MBB, w/Bob Brown. He saw Strauss (too). I had Mr. Pelossi w/trust company, I had to move the money in there and make sure it goes into an account--Pelossi was in custody, and I received a call and the older account was produced (***sorry! This is very confusing!!!).
Szabo (chair, LPC): want to hear from Tilson, Martin and then Hubbard. Committee has to go in-camera to discuss future dates and witnesses. After I excuse the witness, anyone who's not part of proceedings should leave after that. I know you want to go scrum (I'm a-lookin at you Pat Martin) but we gotta get going. Ok, Mr. Tilson...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): you have indicated that there have been conspiracies by the Liberal government, the conservative government and the German gov...
Schreiber: no, the prosecutors, not the government in Germany
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): Ok, when you say there are conspiracies, can you tell us what that means?
Schreiber: started in approx May 1995 when the justice dept and RCMP contacted prosecutors in Germany and made them aware of all these things going on in Canada. They met from time to time, eg. I have 9 complaints against RCMP for violating Swiss sovereignty; Mr. Pelossi was first asked/interviewed in 1995. The justice dept was very keen...
(CBC's Don Newman is interrupting the hearing w/non-Schreiber news)
...Schreiber: sometimes people in Germany or 11 or more years in custody w/o ever having a day in court. (he's going on about the extradition process and existing treaties btwn Germany and Canada...Schreiber really wants to be tried in Canada instead)
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): is that what this is all about? You're the centre of attn on this thing. The inquiry, the RCMP etc...is this what it's all about? That you're being wrongly treated by the Germans?
Schreiber: if you look at this mess, the horrible thing started with the Liberals and Alan Rock...I told him that "I don't care about your apology, I'll see you in court"...I expected that PM Harper would want to look into this. It's in the interest of each and every Canadian, that justice takes place, and I think that Canadians should have the same quality of citizenship that others have. If you leave tomorrow on a business trip, or on vacation, I could show you a scenario where you could be in the same position I am.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): this 2.1 mill paid by feds to BM is part of an out-of-court settlement ~10 yrs ago, settled after RCMP/Justice investigation regarding kickbacks (alleged) from you. The gov of the day thought the whole matter was cleared up. 10 years later, here we are again. What was all that about?
Schreiber: when you look at that, I think that we could go out here hand in hand. I have not the smallest clue. ...(??? speaking really quickly here ???)... I really try to be fair to you, but when he speaks to you about my letter (referring to DM or Wallace reading the obsequious Elmer-MacKay-dictated-letter) this was not the first letter I was asked to sign-or even affidavits---I would not touch this anymore, in the interest of BM. I can only hope that you believe what I'm saying.
12:43 PM
Hiebert (CPC): you said you were willing to sign anything. The July 26 letter isn't one you think is true, but you signed it anyway. What other letters have you signed that you don't believe true? Aren't you concerned that you may have perjured yourself once, twice, three times maybe, in order to avoid extradition?
Schreiber: no, not at all.
Hiebert (CPC): how do you explain that one letter you wrote is accurate, and another one you were forced to sign?
Schreiber: why don't you ask the witness about this and if you would have been in my position, and the previous prime minister, who did "so much mess to me," and come and say, "Heinz, I want to help you, but you did this horrible 5th estate program. I can't do this unless you give me this letter that I can show to the PM that we are in good terms." You have a wife, you have children, what would you have done?
Hiebert (CPC): so you were willing to sign anything?
Schreiber: yes
Continue to the final part in this series, Part VIII ("You can't lie to me--this is the Ethics Committee!"), or return to Part VI ("And if Brian asked you to jump off a bridge, would you do that, too?").
"Bless this Mess" sampler courtesy of emblibrary.com
Bless this Mess
12:22 PM
Asselin (BQ): Did I understand correctly that Doucet asked for 300K for BM?
Schreiber: no. There was no amount discussed.
Asselin (BQ): you contributed financially to BM at Mr. Doucet's request?
Schreiber: yes
Asselin (BQ): did I understand correctly that you contributed 30K to Jean Charest's campaign?
Schreiber: yes
Asselin (BQ): were you aware that Doucet was the chief organizer of Peter MacKay's campaign for the leadership of the PC party?
Schreiber: didn't know at the time. (some confusion about whether Asselin is asking about Charest or MacKay)
Asselin (BQ): was it fred doucet or elmer mackay who came to you for the campaign of Peter MacKay? Schreiber, it's difficult to understand that you're a great friend of Elmer, the father, b/c you contributed to BM, you paid to Charest, but you didn't contribute to Peter MacKay's leadership campaign.
Schreiber: I contributed to the former PC party, not to these people, and I didn't have a relationship with Peter in those days.
Asselin (BQ): but you're a great friend of Elmer. Elmer is the father of the current Min Defence in the Harper gov. In Charest's case, you also made a contribution. I don't see why you were not asked to contribute to Peter's campaign as well.
Schreiber: I can only guess that he knew it would only become embarrassing. He's such a different character than his father. (*snerk*)
Asselin (BQ): if I understand correctly, you made no direct or indirect contribution to Peter MacKay's campaign?
Schreiber: no
Lavallée (BQ): coming back to the letter of threats you made to BM. While the info you threatened to disclose had to be important, you said you were prepared to disclose that BM had received money from GCI. But that meant you had to know why, how much and when. And that BM had to know that you knew. So he didn't give you a favourable response, tell us about it...go ahead. Tell us a story. (*smiles*)
Schreiber: when Doucet came w/his request, and Moores and Ouellet told me to stay out of it, I am waiting for the witnesses to come forward in an inquiry.
Lavallée (BQ): date of this interchange w/Doucet--transfer of money?
Schreiber: 92 or 93, don't know exactly.
Lavallée (BQ): BM was PM at that time. For 10 years that you were dealing with GCI, GCI dealing with BM...why was GCI dealing w/BM--there were a number of contracts involved w/PC gov.
Schreiber: it was my understanding since the early 80s that BM would help GCI and that GCI would hire BM after he ceased to be PM
Lavallée (BQ): yes, they did work well together. Your contract was for AB was for 1.8 million, you made 20 million commission and then IAL was paid by Thyssen a commission of 3.9 million CAD. For the LAV plant. The coast guard 26 million, your company, IAL got $880 000 and GCI about a million. i.e. Lots of examples in just a few years. Under BM's gov, you got contracts of $2 billion for your clients, b/c of your friend, former PM BM. And the money you gave BM in the end...equalled less than 1.5%
Schreiber: IAL is not my company. The commissions were not for me, but for GCI. I gave Moores' correspondence w/Strauss to the cmte on Tues. After the agreements have been made and Sinclair Stevens came to Germany and negotiated with Thyssen, Sinclair Stevens came to Bavaria and negotiated w/ MBB, w/Bob Brown. He saw Strauss (too). I had Mr. Pelossi w/trust company, I had to move the money in there and make sure it goes into an account--Pelossi was in custody, and I received a call and the older account was produced (***sorry! This is very confusing!!!).
Szabo (chair, LPC): want to hear from Tilson, Martin and then Hubbard. Committee has to go in-camera to discuss future dates and witnesses. After I excuse the witness, anyone who's not part of proceedings should leave after that. I know you want to go scrum (I'm a-lookin at you Pat Martin) but we gotta get going. Ok, Mr. Tilson...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): you have indicated that there have been conspiracies by the Liberal government, the conservative government and the German gov...
Schreiber: no, the prosecutors, not the government in Germany
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): Ok, when you say there are conspiracies, can you tell us what that means?
Schreiber: started in approx May 1995 when the justice dept and RCMP contacted prosecutors in Germany and made them aware of all these things going on in Canada. They met from time to time, eg. I have 9 complaints against RCMP for violating Swiss sovereignty; Mr. Pelossi was first asked/interviewed in 1995. The justice dept was very keen...
(CBC's Don Newman is interrupting the hearing w/non-Schreiber news)
...Schreiber: sometimes people in Germany or 11 or more years in custody w/o ever having a day in court. (he's going on about the extradition process and existing treaties btwn Germany and Canada...Schreiber really wants to be tried in Canada instead)
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): is that what this is all about? You're the centre of attn on this thing. The inquiry, the RCMP etc...is this what it's all about? That you're being wrongly treated by the Germans?
Schreiber: if you look at this mess, the horrible thing started with the Liberals and Alan Rock...I told him that "I don't care about your apology, I'll see you in court"...I expected that PM Harper would want to look into this. It's in the interest of each and every Canadian, that justice takes place, and I think that Canadians should have the same quality of citizenship that others have. If you leave tomorrow on a business trip, or on vacation, I could show you a scenario where you could be in the same position I am.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): this 2.1 mill paid by feds to BM is part of an out-of-court settlement ~10 yrs ago, settled after RCMP/Justice investigation regarding kickbacks (alleged) from you. The gov of the day thought the whole matter was cleared up. 10 years later, here we are again. What was all that about?
Schreiber: when you look at that, I think that we could go out here hand in hand. I have not the smallest clue. ...(??? speaking really quickly here ???)... I really try to be fair to you, but when he speaks to you about my letter (referring to DM or Wallace reading the obsequious Elmer-MacKay-dictated-letter) this was not the first letter I was asked to sign-or even affidavits---I would not touch this anymore, in the interest of BM. I can only hope that you believe what I'm saying.
12:43 PM
Hiebert (CPC): you said you were willing to sign anything. The July 26 letter isn't one you think is true, but you signed it anyway. What other letters have you signed that you don't believe true? Aren't you concerned that you may have perjured yourself once, twice, three times maybe, in order to avoid extradition?
Schreiber: no, not at all.
Hiebert (CPC): how do you explain that one letter you wrote is accurate, and another one you were forced to sign?
Schreiber: why don't you ask the witness about this and if you would have been in my position, and the previous prime minister, who did "so much mess to me," and come and say, "Heinz, I want to help you, but you did this horrible 5th estate program. I can't do this unless you give me this letter that I can show to the PM that we are in good terms." You have a wife, you have children, what would you have done?
Hiebert (CPC): so you were willing to sign anything?
Schreiber: yes
Continue to the final part in this series, Part VIII ("You can't lie to me--this is the Ethics Committee!"), or return to Part VI ("And if Brian asked you to jump off a bridge, would you do that, too?").
"Bless this Mess" sampler courtesy of emblibrary.com
No comments:
Post a Comment