Karlheinz Schreiber returned to the Commons Ethics committee for the fourth time on Tuesday, Dec 11. As with the three previous meetings (Nov 29, Dec 4, and Dec 6) the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate.
B-b-b-benoît and the Jets
11:30 AM
Szabo (chair, LPC): (reviews committee business, motions, room bookings etc) We will suspend by 1pm or earlier, for a meeting. At the last meeting, members requested that the cmte call two witnesses from GCI, in addition to Mr. Schreiber, i.e. Jerry Doucet and Greg Alford. Unfortunately, Jerry Doucet is in hospital and Alford was only located on Monday, in Toronto. Phone message was left, but there's been no return call. Accordingly, our witness for today is Mr. Schreiber, accompanied by his counsel, Mr. Auger.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): point of privilege, I just want to clarify procedure for today. We're supposed to adjourn for in-camera meeting at 1pm, maybe at West Block. Some of us have to be back at 2pm. With respect to 10 min rule established at last meeting, I'm concerned about the time constraints for today--conceivable that that gov would not have time to ask questions. I'm assuming we'll revert to the usual time rules for today (i.e. 7 min for first round and 5 min each for 2nd round)
Szabo (chair, LPC): as you know, Mr. Tilson, that's not a point of privilege. We've already lost quite a bit of time (starting 1/2 and hour late). If the cmte wants, we'll adjourn a little earlier, if that's acceptable to the members. The members are mixed on trying to cram in all the things we must do. As well, there may be questions right to the end of the meeting. With regard to the 10 min, the cmte unanimously accepted that motion. If the cmte wishes to change, they must make a motion to change it.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): my assumption was that the 10 min motion was only for sessions of 2h. There's no way that we can get to the government's questions (CPC members) w/10 min per member rule. I'm assuming that your interpretation is that in those types of situations, 1hr per witness, that we'd revert to the original rules.
Szabo (chair, LPC): ok, so since there's no motion, we're going to go ahead and...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (annoyed)-ok, ok, I move that we revert to 7min and 5 min each for questioning.
Szabo (chair, LPC): (in best kindergarten teacher voice): ok, does everyone understand the motion put forward by Mr. Tilson? I'll put the question now. (the motion is defeated-everyone will get 10 min each). Accordingly, our witness today is Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber...
***interruption by the Conservatives***
Van Kesteren (CPC): point of privilege!
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, I'm right in the middle of my stmt.
Van Kesteren (CPC): point of order!
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, are you asking for a point of order? Please state the nature of your point of order...
Van Kesteren (CPC): Mr. Chair, I counted 5 votes against (Tilson's) motion and 5 on the government's side.
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, but I sought the ruling of the Clerk and he advises me that the motion was defeated. Now, Mr. Schreiber, I remind you that you are still under oath. If you have a brief opening stmt in the event you'd like to clarify your previous testimony or bring new info, you may do so now. Do you have an opening stmt?
Schreiber: yes
Szabo (chair, LPC): and how long will this take, Mr. S?
Schreiber: I have no idea, it depends on whether somebody asks.
Szabo (chair, LPC): how much time would you like, sir?
Schreiber: 5 min. The last time I was asked about the Bear Head Project (BHP), the key project in this whole matter. And I told you that this matter was in front of the German tax authorities, with the request to all the recipients, that I explained the GCI frameworks with Frank Moores. So, I remind you that I gave you a roadmap to start this, and I think this is the most efficient way, since if you have questions, I can go and prepare the relevant material, which I did. I have here the whole BH file, w/docs from German tax authorities, and w/all the important communication and correspondence, agreements. I think I can give the cmte a complete understanding of what happened and how Thyssen, the German soldiers and the Canadian Soldiers and the people of Nova Scotia were betrayed.
Schreiber: Second, I do this only w/ the reminder that "Government afraid of Airbus inquiry, Schreiber charged," so that nobody forgets who was always was in favour of this. And, finally, unfortunately Mr. Comartin (Pat Comartin, NDP) is not here today, so I will hand over a letter I will send to Mr. Comartin and a letter I received from Hon Marlene Jennings. I'd like to say that Comartin made some comments about me and where my ethical understandings come from. I found these (comments) pretty ignorant...
Szabo (chair, LPC): Mr. Schreiber, let's try to avoid personal attacks.
Schreiber: I apologize, but he (Comartin) puts me together w/Mr. Tony Blair and Maggie Thatcher and I put it in front of you, b/c in the international world, nobody cares what the Canadians want (whoah...), it depends what the client wants. Then I have here, a stmt about the RCMP. The RCMP said I was wrong (when I testified that they never interviewed me for the Airbus inquiry). They said they interviewed me several times, but (they're) completely wrong. I ask you, do you refer to meetings with the RCMP before the settlement agreement (in 1997 w/Mulroney)? The answer is no. I wasn't even in the country, so it's another wrong statement by the RCMP.
Schreiber: Now, for my friends on the left (physical left, i.e. the CPC goons), who had this friendly recommendation for me to go to Germany...I brought you the article "Violation of human rights," that I referred to last time, it may really help you to understand what's really going on. And yes, sir, there are wonderful Germans, but there are also the Germans who did the holocaust and those who shot their own (???). There, it's hard for me to believe that PM Harper didn't speak w/BM, because that meeting was not that far away from the fifth estate (airing), "Money, Truth and Spin." Then, I want to tell you one remark: it was a fight for big money. Today, it's exactly the same, more or less w/the same people. You've heard about my letters to BM, but you haven't the smallest clue how the projects happened. I recommend urgently that you invite as a key witness, Mr. Benoît Bouchard, he was involved in Airbus, b/c he was then Min Transport (from 1988-1990), and he was also involved in BHP.
Szabo (chair, LPC): thank you, Mr. S, I'm going to invite the members to ask questions now. Mr. Thibault? 10 minutes.
Coming up next: Part II ("Make me late for breakfast")
Photo Credit: Stereogum.com
B-b-b-benoît and the Jets
11:30 AM
Szabo (chair, LPC): (reviews committee business, motions, room bookings etc) We will suspend by 1pm or earlier, for a meeting. At the last meeting, members requested that the cmte call two witnesses from GCI, in addition to Mr. Schreiber, i.e. Jerry Doucet and Greg Alford. Unfortunately, Jerry Doucet is in hospital and Alford was only located on Monday, in Toronto. Phone message was left, but there's been no return call. Accordingly, our witness for today is Mr. Schreiber, accompanied by his counsel, Mr. Auger.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): point of privilege, I just want to clarify procedure for today. We're supposed to adjourn for in-camera meeting at 1pm, maybe at West Block. Some of us have to be back at 2pm. With respect to 10 min rule established at last meeting, I'm concerned about the time constraints for today--conceivable that that gov would not have time to ask questions. I'm assuming we'll revert to the usual time rules for today (i.e. 7 min for first round and 5 min each for 2nd round)
Szabo (chair, LPC): as you know, Mr. Tilson, that's not a point of privilege. We've already lost quite a bit of time (starting 1/2 and hour late). If the cmte wants, we'll adjourn a little earlier, if that's acceptable to the members. The members are mixed on trying to cram in all the things we must do. As well, there may be questions right to the end of the meeting. With regard to the 10 min, the cmte unanimously accepted that motion. If the cmte wishes to change, they must make a motion to change it.
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): my assumption was that the 10 min motion was only for sessions of 2h. There's no way that we can get to the government's questions (CPC members) w/10 min per member rule. I'm assuming that your interpretation is that in those types of situations, 1hr per witness, that we'd revert to the original rules.
Szabo (chair, LPC): ok, so since there's no motion, we're going to go ahead and...
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): (annoyed)-ok, ok, I move that we revert to 7min and 5 min each for questioning.
Szabo (chair, LPC): (in best kindergarten teacher voice): ok, does everyone understand the motion put forward by Mr. Tilson? I'll put the question now. (the motion is defeated-everyone will get 10 min each). Accordingly, our witness today is Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber...
***interruption by the Conservatives***
Van Kesteren (CPC): point of privilege!
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, I'm right in the middle of my stmt.
Van Kesteren (CPC): point of order!
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, are you asking for a point of order? Please state the nature of your point of order...
Van Kesteren (CPC): Mr. Chair, I counted 5 votes against (Tilson's) motion and 5 on the government's side.
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, but I sought the ruling of the Clerk and he advises me that the motion was defeated. Now, Mr. Schreiber, I remind you that you are still under oath. If you have a brief opening stmt in the event you'd like to clarify your previous testimony or bring new info, you may do so now. Do you have an opening stmt?
Schreiber: yes
Szabo (chair, LPC): and how long will this take, Mr. S?
Schreiber: I have no idea, it depends on whether somebody asks.
Szabo (chair, LPC): how much time would you like, sir?
Schreiber: 5 min. The last time I was asked about the Bear Head Project (BHP), the key project in this whole matter. And I told you that this matter was in front of the German tax authorities, with the request to all the recipients, that I explained the GCI frameworks with Frank Moores. So, I remind you that I gave you a roadmap to start this, and I think this is the most efficient way, since if you have questions, I can go and prepare the relevant material, which I did. I have here the whole BH file, w/docs from German tax authorities, and w/all the important communication and correspondence, agreements. I think I can give the cmte a complete understanding of what happened and how Thyssen, the German soldiers and the Canadian Soldiers and the people of Nova Scotia were betrayed.
Schreiber: Second, I do this only w/ the reminder that "Government afraid of Airbus inquiry, Schreiber charged," so that nobody forgets who was always was in favour of this. And, finally, unfortunately Mr. Comartin (Pat Comartin, NDP) is not here today, so I will hand over a letter I will send to Mr. Comartin and a letter I received from Hon Marlene Jennings. I'd like to say that Comartin made some comments about me and where my ethical understandings come from. I found these (comments) pretty ignorant...
Szabo (chair, LPC): Mr. Schreiber, let's try to avoid personal attacks.
Schreiber: I apologize, but he (Comartin) puts me together w/Mr. Tony Blair and Maggie Thatcher and I put it in front of you, b/c in the international world, nobody cares what the Canadians want (whoah...), it depends what the client wants. Then I have here, a stmt about the RCMP. The RCMP said I was wrong (when I testified that they never interviewed me for the Airbus inquiry). They said they interviewed me several times, but (they're) completely wrong. I ask you, do you refer to meetings with the RCMP before the settlement agreement (in 1997 w/Mulroney)? The answer is no. I wasn't even in the country, so it's another wrong statement by the RCMP.
Schreiber: Now, for my friends on the left (physical left, i.e. the CPC goons), who had this friendly recommendation for me to go to Germany...I brought you the article "Violation of human rights," that I referred to last time, it may really help you to understand what's really going on. And yes, sir, there are wonderful Germans, but there are also the Germans who did the holocaust and those who shot their own (???). There, it's hard for me to believe that PM Harper didn't speak w/BM, because that meeting was not that far away from the fifth estate (airing), "Money, Truth and Spin." Then, I want to tell you one remark: it was a fight for big money. Today, it's exactly the same, more or less w/the same people. You've heard about my letters to BM, but you haven't the smallest clue how the projects happened. I recommend urgently that you invite as a key witness, Mr. Benoît Bouchard, he was involved in Airbus, b/c he was then Min Transport (from 1988-1990), and he was also involved in BHP.
Szabo (chair, LPC): thank you, Mr. S, I'm going to invite the members to ask questions now. Mr. Thibault? 10 minutes.
Coming up next: Part II ("Make me late for breakfast")
Photo Credit: Stereogum.com
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