Karlheinz Schreiber returned to the Commons Ethics committee for the fourth time on Tuesday, Dec 11. As with the three previous meetings (Nov 29, Dec 4, and Dec 6) the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate. You can return to the beginning of this 'series,' by clicking here: Part I.
"No room for any bargains with me"
Dhaliwal (LPC): thanks for coming back again, Mr. Schreiber. Can you tell me, what was BM's reaction when he got the first envelope of 100K in cash?
Schreiber: he was very happy and said thank you!
Dhaliwal (LPC): (laughing a bit) Mr. Schreiber, you mentioned the guest-house. Why mention the guest house if you moved on to 24 Sussex for breakfast?
Schreiber: it was agreed upon by MacKay and BM to meet at the guest house. Elmer MacKay and I met there and were asked to move to Sussex.
Dhaliwal (LPC): did you know that this guest house was for foreign guests?
Schreiber: no.
Dhaliwal (LPC): was it possible that any German dignitaries were in town at the time?
Schreiber: no
Dhaliwal (LPC): could you get back to us w/a date for this meeting?
Schreiber: only if Elmer Mackay's office has a note of it somewhere. I'm unable to find out from my side.
Dhaliwal (LPC): Thank you. Did you, alone, have access to the Frankfurt acct?
Schreiber: yes. Oh, wait, I think my wife had a proxy.
Dhaliwal (LPC): how many dollars were in the Frankfurt account, originally?
Schreiber: I've no idea. To make it clear to you, it was just like a stop station: comes to IAL, goes to Frankfurt, goes to Moores, where he decides it goes to Ouellet or Trust accts or whatever.
Dhaliwal (LPC): so the amount was 500K? And it was for BM?
Schreiber: well, it could have been somebody else--the money was there for whomever worked on the project.
Dhaliwal (LPC): for what services was this money sitting there?
Schreiber: the money was from the $4 million which we received from Thyssen success fees. And now nothing happened and the project was in the air. I had to hope that something would come up, and that the financing would be there--and that was what it was for (the 500K).
Dhaliwal (LPC): but for what services? Were these pasta services?
Schreiber: (annoyed) look, I told you already, this pasta business, it's pure nonsense, it didn't exist at the time.
Dhaliwal (LPC): so it was basically to do with the BHP?
Schreiber: the BHP and nothing else.
Dhaliwal (LPC): who would have the best records for this Frankfurt acct? Would you be able to help the cmte?
Schreiber: I can try from the Swiss bank. They may be on the internet, from the 5th Estate. They have an enormous databank and I'm quite surprised by how organized they are.
Dhaliwal (LPC): you said today that Thyssen knew that BM was working on the BHP. When exactly did they know?
Schreiber: well, we have to separate this. Number one, Mr. Mulroney supported the BHP and this is what he told the execs from Thyssen when they visited Ottawa and met BM. Number two, I told them that there would probably be another chance after the election. So these are the two places.
Dhaliwal (LPC): what exactly did Thyssen think he was doing for the BHP?
Schreiber: they expected that BM was doing the same thing that GCI has done before (*lobbying, then?*)
Dhaliwal (LPC): your letters, now on the BHP, May 22, 1992, you write, "Dear PM, as promised, I write to keep you informed of recent events which have occurred as I proceed to realize our project by the matter which I agreed w/you during the last meeting." Am I correct that this meeting took place in early 1992? May 1992?
Schreiber: yeah.
Dhaliwal (LPC): who else was present there? Must have been staff, b/c he was still PM...
Schreiber: no idea. Could have been Doucet or Moores. Normally some are w/me when I met w/BM.
Dhaliwal (LPC): was the possibility of developing the BHP in Quebec discussed at this meeting?
Schreiber: this is what it deals w/right? Charest, (former Min. Transport Jean Corbeil), Bouchard...they should know a lot about this.
Dhaliwal (LPC): did you have any other meetings w/BM where you personally discussed the BHP?
Schreiber: whenever I meet w/him, I discussed BHP, it was my job.
Dhaliwal (LPC): can you tell me how many?
Schreiber: let me make something clear, here. Once in a while I have this impression, when you look at the media, that I woke up one morning and said, "Ok, now I do the BHP." This is nonsense. Thyssen was invited by the Canadian government to bring jobs to Nova Scotia and it was through the Canadian Embassy, and the Ambassador at the time, Mr. McPhail. And it was Sinclair Stevens who came to Germany for that.
Dhaliwal (LPC): I wanted to know, at those meetings, who else was present?
Schreiber: well, it could be Executives from Thyssen. I have a funny gift still at my place, it is a great big locomotive brought by Thyssen executives brought here, b/c it's the number one in locomotives. It has a sign on it, "locomotives and Prime Ministers have something in common: they both put things in motion"
Dhaliwal (LPC): letter you sent April 14, 2007 to BM, where you respond to an assertion by BM's lawyer that he does not owe you any money. You write, "I have a different understanding and I recommend that you ask your friend, Fred Doucet, for help refreshing your memory concerning the money and what it was for"...this refers to the 300K in 93 and 94 for BHP?
Schreiber: yes, that meeting in New York, Mr. Doucet was around... he knows what the money was for.
Dhaliwal (LPC): from this letter, I take that Doucet knew that you provided BM w/some money.
Schreiber: yes.
Dhaliwal (LPC): and you've said that Mr. Doucet was involved in setting up the 23 June 1993 at Harrington Lake.
Schreiber: and at the Queen Elizabeth and at New York.
Dhaliwal (LPC): he was involved in all three setups?
Schreiber: yes, in NY, he was even present.
Dhaliwal (LPC): another letter concerning your agreement w/BM about BHP, in July 2004 letter to BM, you write, "is BM Canada's greatest deal broker ever? I say yes" What was it about your meeting w/BM at Harrington Lake that lead you to call him "Canada's best deal broker?"
Schreiber: when you look at the brochure for the local mayor (??), it shows in how many companies worldwide BM is involved, from Gold Barrick and Amex. That is what I saw. A PM with enormous amounts of contacts all over the world.
Dhaliwal (LPC): Did he broker a deal w/you? What were his demands?
Schreiber: oh no, he didn't bargain w/me. No room for any bargains w/me...
***laughter***
Continue to Part VII ("This isn't 24/7 for me...I have a life, you know"), or return to Part V ("You may be the next one who's going to sell hot dogs").
Photo Credit: Forever Young
"No room for any bargains with me"
Dhaliwal (LPC): thanks for coming back again, Mr. Schreiber. Can you tell me, what was BM's reaction when he got the first envelope of 100K in cash?
Schreiber: he was very happy and said thank you!
Dhaliwal (LPC): (laughing a bit) Mr. Schreiber, you mentioned the guest-house. Why mention the guest house if you moved on to 24 Sussex for breakfast?
Schreiber: it was agreed upon by MacKay and BM to meet at the guest house. Elmer MacKay and I met there and were asked to move to Sussex.
Dhaliwal (LPC): did you know that this guest house was for foreign guests?
Schreiber: no.
Dhaliwal (LPC): was it possible that any German dignitaries were in town at the time?
Schreiber: no
Dhaliwal (LPC): could you get back to us w/a date for this meeting?
Schreiber: only if Elmer Mackay's office has a note of it somewhere. I'm unable to find out from my side.
Dhaliwal (LPC): Thank you. Did you, alone, have access to the Frankfurt acct?
Schreiber: yes. Oh, wait, I think my wife had a proxy.
Dhaliwal (LPC): how many dollars were in the Frankfurt account, originally?
Schreiber: I've no idea. To make it clear to you, it was just like a stop station: comes to IAL, goes to Frankfurt, goes to Moores, where he decides it goes to Ouellet or Trust accts or whatever.
Dhaliwal (LPC): so the amount was 500K? And it was for BM?
Schreiber: well, it could have been somebody else--the money was there for whomever worked on the project.
Dhaliwal (LPC): for what services was this money sitting there?
Schreiber: the money was from the $4 million which we received from Thyssen success fees. And now nothing happened and the project was in the air. I had to hope that something would come up, and that the financing would be there--and that was what it was for (the 500K).
Dhaliwal (LPC): but for what services? Were these pasta services?
Schreiber: (annoyed) look, I told you already, this pasta business, it's pure nonsense, it didn't exist at the time.
Dhaliwal (LPC): so it was basically to do with the BHP?
Schreiber: the BHP and nothing else.
Dhaliwal (LPC): who would have the best records for this Frankfurt acct? Would you be able to help the cmte?
Schreiber: I can try from the Swiss bank. They may be on the internet, from the 5th Estate. They have an enormous databank and I'm quite surprised by how organized they are.
Dhaliwal (LPC): you said today that Thyssen knew that BM was working on the BHP. When exactly did they know?
Schreiber: well, we have to separate this. Number one, Mr. Mulroney supported the BHP and this is what he told the execs from Thyssen when they visited Ottawa and met BM. Number two, I told them that there would probably be another chance after the election. So these are the two places.
Dhaliwal (LPC): what exactly did Thyssen think he was doing for the BHP?
Schreiber: they expected that BM was doing the same thing that GCI has done before (*lobbying, then?*)
Dhaliwal (LPC): your letters, now on the BHP, May 22, 1992, you write, "Dear PM, as promised, I write to keep you informed of recent events which have occurred as I proceed to realize our project by the matter which I agreed w/you during the last meeting." Am I correct that this meeting took place in early 1992? May 1992?
Schreiber: yeah.
Dhaliwal (LPC): who else was present there? Must have been staff, b/c he was still PM...
Schreiber: no idea. Could have been Doucet or Moores. Normally some are w/me when I met w/BM.
Dhaliwal (LPC): was the possibility of developing the BHP in Quebec discussed at this meeting?
Schreiber: this is what it deals w/right? Charest, (former Min. Transport Jean Corbeil), Bouchard...they should know a lot about this.
Dhaliwal (LPC): did you have any other meetings w/BM where you personally discussed the BHP?
Schreiber: whenever I meet w/him, I discussed BHP, it was my job.
Dhaliwal (LPC): can you tell me how many?
Schreiber: let me make something clear, here. Once in a while I have this impression, when you look at the media, that I woke up one morning and said, "Ok, now I do the BHP." This is nonsense. Thyssen was invited by the Canadian government to bring jobs to Nova Scotia and it was through the Canadian Embassy, and the Ambassador at the time, Mr. McPhail. And it was Sinclair Stevens who came to Germany for that.
Dhaliwal (LPC): I wanted to know, at those meetings, who else was present?
Schreiber: well, it could be Executives from Thyssen. I have a funny gift still at my place, it is a great big locomotive brought by Thyssen executives brought here, b/c it's the number one in locomotives. It has a sign on it, "locomotives and Prime Ministers have something in common: they both put things in motion"
Dhaliwal (LPC): letter you sent April 14, 2007 to BM, where you respond to an assertion by BM's lawyer that he does not owe you any money. You write, "I have a different understanding and I recommend that you ask your friend, Fred Doucet, for help refreshing your memory concerning the money and what it was for"...this refers to the 300K in 93 and 94 for BHP?
Schreiber: yes, that meeting in New York, Mr. Doucet was around... he knows what the money was for.
Dhaliwal (LPC): from this letter, I take that Doucet knew that you provided BM w/some money.
Schreiber: yes.
Dhaliwal (LPC): and you've said that Mr. Doucet was involved in setting up the 23 June 1993 at Harrington Lake.
Schreiber: and at the Queen Elizabeth and at New York.
Dhaliwal (LPC): he was involved in all three setups?
Schreiber: yes, in NY, he was even present.
Dhaliwal (LPC): another letter concerning your agreement w/BM about BHP, in July 2004 letter to BM, you write, "is BM Canada's greatest deal broker ever? I say yes" What was it about your meeting w/BM at Harrington Lake that lead you to call him "Canada's best deal broker?"
Schreiber: when you look at the brochure for the local mayor (??), it shows in how many companies worldwide BM is involved, from Gold Barrick and Amex. That is what I saw. A PM with enormous amounts of contacts all over the world.
Dhaliwal (LPC): Did he broker a deal w/you? What were his demands?
Schreiber: oh no, he didn't bargain w/me. No room for any bargains w/me...
***laughter***
Continue to Part VII ("This isn't 24/7 for me...I have a life, you know"), or return to Part V ("You may be the next one who's going to sell hot dogs").
Photo Credit: Forever Young
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