Karlheinz Schreiber returned to the Commons Ethics committee for the fourth time on Tuesday, Dec 11. As with the three previous meetings (Nov 29, Dec 4, and Dec 6) the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate. You can return to the beginning of this 'series,' by clicking here: Part I.
12:15 PM
Szabo (chair, LPC): just for clarification for the committee, I've heard you for the second time today that you brought the envelope of 100K in 100 x $1000 dollar bills the first time. Did he--subsequent to that 1st meeting--did he request to receive the money in the form of a bank transfer or...it seems to me that it would be very difficult to spend one $1000 dollar bill, let alone 100 x $1000 dollar bills.
Schreiber: no
Szabo (chair, LPC): he never asked you for an alternative?
Schreiber: no, no.
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, the basis of BM's libel suit in 1996 was a letter by the Dept of Justice to the Swiss authorities insinuating that BM had received Airbus kickbacks. There are still some questions as to how that letter was made public. Did you ever see a copy of that letter before it was published in the Financial Post?
Schreiber: sure.
Hiebert (CPC): can you tell me where you saw it?
Schreiber: this is, excuse me sir, common knowledge...I received the letter in German through the law firm who was representing me and I saw the letter, read it in that office, and called BM and informed him about it--Mr. Mulroney requested a translation of that letter from that (lawyer's) office. Then I left. And then the letters in English were sent to my lawyer, to BM, to my other lawyers, and AFAIK, there was even a lawsuit between the lawfirm "Bloom and Partner" that accused them of leaking it to somebody. It was even in the Swiss media, but I think the lawsuit collapsed.
Hiebert (CPC): do you know a reporter who used to work for the Financial Post by the name of Philip Mathias?
Schreiber: yes.
Hiebert (CPC): have you ever met him or spoken with him?
Schreiber: yes
Hiebert (CPC): can you tell me when or where?
Schreiber: Philip Mathias...(long pause...thinking) hard to say, must have been in 2000 or, NO, no! 1999. I was with him when I was arrested in August.
Hiebert (CPC): had you met him prior to the libel suit in 1996?
Schreiber: no
Hiebert (CPC): you'd never met him?
Schreiber: no. Mathias? I told you earlier, I was in Switzerland, and all this stuff was here, so I was not around.
Hiebert (CPC): you'd never spoken with him before the libel suit by BM.
Schreiber: no. Probably on the telephone...
Hiebert (CPC): so you had spoken with him?
Schreiber: sorry, you said "met him?"
Hiebert (CPC): no, met or spoke with him...
Schreiber: yes, we probably spoke on the telephone. He was very close w/Elmer MacKay, otherwise, how would I have known him?
Hiebert (CPC): fair enough. Are you aware that Mr. Mathias received a copy of the Dept. Justice letter about the alleged Airbus kickback that was sent to the Swiss?
Schreiber: I saw this on the 5th estate, yes.
Hiebert (CPC): are you aware that this letter is the basis for the libel suit that had the Canadian gov pay out $2.1 mill to BM?
Schreiber: no.
Hiebert (CPC): you're not aware?
Schreiber: no, but pretty soon we got the official English translation from the Swiss, I don't know which translation BM used.
Hiebert (CPC): no, my question's more general than that. Are you aware that it was the letter leaked to Mr. Mathias that was the basis for the libel suit?
Schreiber: no. (annoyed) I just told you: a short time after that came the official English translation from the Canadian government to the Swiss Dept Justice, so how do I know which one he used?
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, do you know a person by the name of George Wolff ?
Schreiber: yes
Hiebert (CPC): how do you know him? Ever met or spoken with him?
Schreiber: yes, he was a journalist from CTV and he was the one who made Pelossi confess during his program (that he stole the money) and that he is not the guilty guy, I am the guilty guy--if I would have paid him, then BM would not be in trouble. This is George Wolff.
Hiebert (CPC): are you aware that George Wolff has claimed that you "selected Mr. Mathias"?
Schreiber: "selected Mr. Mathias?" what for?
Hiebert (CPC): well, that's where my line of questioning is going...were you aware that he's made this stmt?
Schreiber: yes, I saw this on that 5th estate program. I called him about this and asked him how he can explain this nonsense. The explanation was finally that he was mad at me, and that he left his job at CTV because he never got an exclusive story from me. But! He was in Switzerland, and he's the one who took photos from me and sold them to Mathias.
Hiebert (CPC): did you ever make the stmt that you "selected Mr. Mathias?"
Schreiber: for the Airbus story, yes I did. Mathias got a journalist award on this story. It was 2 pgs and uh...a real good story (*smiling* Oooooh! Schreiber Centrefold!)
Hiebert (CPC): so you had said that you had "selected Mr. Mathias?"
Schreiber: for the Airbus story, yes
Hiebert (CPC): what did you mean by that stmt?
Schreiber: I can't even discuss w/you...Mathias' address was brought to me by Elmer Mackay. He was w/the National Post and I was w/other people at the NP and I learned he was a good journalist and I gave him that story and you can read that story
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Wolff believed that you were the one that gave the letter from the Swiss to Mathias (wait...letter *to* Swiss or from Swiss?!)
Schreiber: I can't help what Mr. Wolff believes.
Hiebert (CPC): So did you have anything to do w/how Mathias got a copy of that letter?
Schreiber: no
Hiebert (CPC): how do you believe that Mathias get a copy of that letter?
Schreiber: I don't care. (*snerkypants*)
Hiebert (CPC): But how do you believe he got it?
Schreiber: there are quite a few possibilities. He could have spoken to Moores, my lawyer, BM's people...how do I know?
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, you spend a lot of time and money fighting extradition to Germany. I wonder if you can tell us, how many times have you appeared before the Ontario Superior Crt?
Schreiber: I have no idea, for 5 years now...there's an excellent Judge, David Watt...
Hiebert (CPC): just a guess?
Schreiber: from 1999 to now? I've no idea. Could be 20 or 30 times.
Hiebert (CPC): how many times have you appeared before the fed courts?
Schreiber: difficult to say...several times.
Hiebert (CPC): how many times have you appealed your extradition at the Ont Supr Crt?
Schreiber: 3, 4, 5...times
Hiebert (CPC): and how many times have you appealed your extradition to the Supreme Court of Canada?
Schreiber: have to be careful...one is normal process, extradition court, and takes decision from Minister, then to appeals and then to SCC. But also had another decision before the SCC...
Hiebert (CPC): how many times have you appeared or appealed to SCC?
Schreiber: 3 times?
Hiebert (CPC): after the 5th estate program on Feb 8, 2006, did you meet w/RCMP in your lawyer's office?
Schreiber: Yes. And now I make it very simple for you: I asked them to meet w/me after we met in the court room w/(RCMP) Supt. A.K. Matthews. And I met w/him several times at the Westin, related to the MBB stuff and I told them, "If you're not going to stop this nonsense, then you may be the next one who's going to sell hotdogs." But it has nothing to do w/Airbus. Don't mix it, please.
Hiebert (CPC): have you or anyone on your behalf approached the RCMP to make a deal that would help you avoid extradition?
Schreiber: (confused...Hiebert repeats question) I've not had such a discussion with them. I for sure did not speak w/them on any deal.
Hiebert (CPC): has anyone on your behalf?
Schreiber: I don't know.
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, when you first appeared before this cmte, you told us that you were the victim and that you finally wanted to tell us your side to the story. But you really haven't told us anything new, and in fact, you've been using your protection in parliament to cast aspersions on individuals w/o providing a shred of evidence. Is it your hope that, by maligning and shredding the integrity of other individuals, that you'll delay and possibly avoid extradition back to Germany?
Schreiber: no, what I try all the time, and I think you're aware of this, this goes from 1996, either in a crt room or an inquiry, and I hope very much that the Conservatives do this and finally get out the truth. And on top of that, if I could get my day in Court in Canada, Canadians could see what the Germans and Canadians fabricated and they would be shocked and I would be happy to do that every day sir.
Szabo (chair, LPC): (cuts of Hiebert, who's out of time): looks like we have enough time for one more complete (10 min) round. Each party has one more round. I understand it's acceptable that our in-camera session be held tomorrow instead.
Continue to Part VI ("No room for any bargains with me"), or return to Part IV ("Won't get fooled again!").
Hot Dog sign stolen from Don Burleson blog
"You may be the next one who's going to sell hot dogs"
12:15 PM
Szabo (chair, LPC): just for clarification for the committee, I've heard you for the second time today that you brought the envelope of 100K in 100 x $1000 dollar bills the first time. Did he--subsequent to that 1st meeting--did he request to receive the money in the form of a bank transfer or...it seems to me that it would be very difficult to spend one $1000 dollar bill, let alone 100 x $1000 dollar bills.
Schreiber: no
Szabo (chair, LPC): he never asked you for an alternative?
Schreiber: no, no.
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, the basis of BM's libel suit in 1996 was a letter by the Dept of Justice to the Swiss authorities insinuating that BM had received Airbus kickbacks. There are still some questions as to how that letter was made public. Did you ever see a copy of that letter before it was published in the Financial Post?
Schreiber: sure.
Hiebert (CPC): can you tell me where you saw it?
Schreiber: this is, excuse me sir, common knowledge...I received the letter in German through the law firm who was representing me and I saw the letter, read it in that office, and called BM and informed him about it--Mr. Mulroney requested a translation of that letter from that (lawyer's) office. Then I left. And then the letters in English were sent to my lawyer, to BM, to my other lawyers, and AFAIK, there was even a lawsuit between the lawfirm "Bloom and Partner" that accused them of leaking it to somebody. It was even in the Swiss media, but I think the lawsuit collapsed.
Hiebert (CPC): do you know a reporter who used to work for the Financial Post by the name of Philip Mathias?
Schreiber: yes.
Hiebert (CPC): have you ever met him or spoken with him?
Schreiber: yes
Hiebert (CPC): can you tell me when or where?
Schreiber: Philip Mathias...(long pause...thinking) hard to say, must have been in 2000 or, NO, no! 1999. I was with him when I was arrested in August.
Hiebert (CPC): had you met him prior to the libel suit in 1996?
Schreiber: no
Hiebert (CPC): you'd never met him?
Schreiber: no. Mathias? I told you earlier, I was in Switzerland, and all this stuff was here, so I was not around.
Hiebert (CPC): you'd never spoken with him before the libel suit by BM.
Schreiber: no. Probably on the telephone...
Hiebert (CPC): so you had spoken with him?
Schreiber: sorry, you said "met him?"
Hiebert (CPC): no, met or spoke with him...
Schreiber: yes, we probably spoke on the telephone. He was very close w/Elmer MacKay, otherwise, how would I have known him?
Hiebert (CPC): fair enough. Are you aware that Mr. Mathias received a copy of the Dept. Justice letter about the alleged Airbus kickback that was sent to the Swiss?
Schreiber: I saw this on the 5th estate, yes.
Hiebert (CPC): are you aware that this letter is the basis for the libel suit that had the Canadian gov pay out $2.1 mill to BM?
Schreiber: no.
Hiebert (CPC): you're not aware?
Schreiber: no, but pretty soon we got the official English translation from the Swiss, I don't know which translation BM used.
Hiebert (CPC): no, my question's more general than that. Are you aware that it was the letter leaked to Mr. Mathias that was the basis for the libel suit?
Schreiber: no. (annoyed) I just told you: a short time after that came the official English translation from the Canadian government to the Swiss Dept Justice, so how do I know which one he used?
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, do you know a person by the name of George Wolff ?
Schreiber: yes
Hiebert (CPC): how do you know him? Ever met or spoken with him?
Schreiber: yes, he was a journalist from CTV and he was the one who made Pelossi confess during his program (that he stole the money) and that he is not the guilty guy, I am the guilty guy--if I would have paid him, then BM would not be in trouble. This is George Wolff.
Hiebert (CPC): are you aware that George Wolff has claimed that you "selected Mr. Mathias"?
Schreiber: "selected Mr. Mathias?" what for?
Hiebert (CPC): well, that's where my line of questioning is going...were you aware that he's made this stmt?
Schreiber: yes, I saw this on that 5th estate program. I called him about this and asked him how he can explain this nonsense. The explanation was finally that he was mad at me, and that he left his job at CTV because he never got an exclusive story from me. But! He was in Switzerland, and he's the one who took photos from me and sold them to Mathias.
Hiebert (CPC): did you ever make the stmt that you "selected Mr. Mathias?"
Schreiber: for the Airbus story, yes I did. Mathias got a journalist award on this story. It was 2 pgs and uh...a real good story (*smiling* Oooooh! Schreiber Centrefold!)
Hiebert (CPC): so you had said that you had "selected Mr. Mathias?"
Schreiber: for the Airbus story, yes
Hiebert (CPC): what did you mean by that stmt?
Schreiber: I can't even discuss w/you...Mathias' address was brought to me by Elmer Mackay. He was w/the National Post and I was w/other people at the NP and I learned he was a good journalist and I gave him that story and you can read that story
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Wolff believed that you were the one that gave the letter from the Swiss to Mathias (wait...letter *to* Swiss or from Swiss?!)
Schreiber: I can't help what Mr. Wolff believes.
Hiebert (CPC): So did you have anything to do w/how Mathias got a copy of that letter?
Schreiber: no
Hiebert (CPC): how do you believe that Mathias get a copy of that letter?
Schreiber: I don't care. (*snerkypants*)
Hiebert (CPC): But how do you believe he got it?
Schreiber: there are quite a few possibilities. He could have spoken to Moores, my lawyer, BM's people...how do I know?
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, you spend a lot of time and money fighting extradition to Germany. I wonder if you can tell us, how many times have you appeared before the Ontario Superior Crt?
Schreiber: I have no idea, for 5 years now...there's an excellent Judge, David Watt...
Hiebert (CPC): just a guess?
Schreiber: from 1999 to now? I've no idea. Could be 20 or 30 times.
Hiebert (CPC): how many times have you appeared before the fed courts?
Schreiber: difficult to say...several times.
Hiebert (CPC): how many times have you appealed your extradition at the Ont Supr Crt?
Schreiber: 3, 4, 5...times
Hiebert (CPC): and how many times have you appealed your extradition to the Supreme Court of Canada?
Schreiber: have to be careful...one is normal process, extradition court, and takes decision from Minister, then to appeals and then to SCC. But also had another decision before the SCC...
Hiebert (CPC): how many times have you appeared or appealed to SCC?
Schreiber: 3 times?
Hiebert (CPC): after the 5th estate program on Feb 8, 2006, did you meet w/RCMP in your lawyer's office?
Schreiber: Yes. And now I make it very simple for you: I asked them to meet w/me after we met in the court room w/(RCMP) Supt. A.K. Matthews. And I met w/him several times at the Westin, related to the MBB stuff and I told them, "If you're not going to stop this nonsense, then you may be the next one who's going to sell hotdogs." But it has nothing to do w/Airbus. Don't mix it, please.
Hiebert (CPC): have you or anyone on your behalf approached the RCMP to make a deal that would help you avoid extradition?
Schreiber: (confused...Hiebert repeats question) I've not had such a discussion with them. I for sure did not speak w/them on any deal.
Hiebert (CPC): has anyone on your behalf?
Schreiber: I don't know.
Hiebert (CPC): Mr. Schreiber, when you first appeared before this cmte, you told us that you were the victim and that you finally wanted to tell us your side to the story. But you really haven't told us anything new, and in fact, you've been using your protection in parliament to cast aspersions on individuals w/o providing a shred of evidence. Is it your hope that, by maligning and shredding the integrity of other individuals, that you'll delay and possibly avoid extradition back to Germany?
Schreiber: no, what I try all the time, and I think you're aware of this, this goes from 1996, either in a crt room or an inquiry, and I hope very much that the Conservatives do this and finally get out the truth. And on top of that, if I could get my day in Court in Canada, Canadians could see what the Germans and Canadians fabricated and they would be shocked and I would be happy to do that every day sir.
Szabo (chair, LPC): (cuts of Hiebert, who's out of time): looks like we have enough time for one more complete (10 min) round. Each party has one more round. I understand it's acceptable that our in-camera session be held tomorrow instead.
Continue to Part VI ("No room for any bargains with me"), or return to Part IV ("Won't get fooled again!").
Hot Dog sign stolen from Don Burleson blog
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