The Right Honourable Brian Mulroney (or "BM," as I've come to know him) presented himself to the Commons Ethics committee for an exhausting 3 1/2 hours on Thursday. As with the Schreiber testimony (Nov 29, Dec 4, Dec 6, and Dec 11) the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate. You can return to the beginning of this 'series,' by clicking here: Part I.
Never ask a man 'how big' it was
12:16 PM
Rodriguez (LPC): on the Wireless Spectrum issue, while he was Industry Minister, have you ever met w/him at all? In which city? Have you ever phoned him, or has he phoned you? Did you ever talk about wireless w/Maxime Bernier?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: (objecting-doesn't want to answer)
Szabo (chair, LPC): we already ruled on this, Mr. Mulroney, you have to answer.
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: I know, but I thought this would be overruled, b/c it has nothing to do w/our mandate. Please repeat it?
Rodriguez (LPC): (repeats the Wireless question)
***interruption***
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): I'd like to challenge your ruling, Mr. Chairman. He's continuing on, w/this cross-examination...I challenge your ruling that he can continue on. It goes far beyond the mandate.
Szabo (chair, LPC): that's not debatable. Do members understand the challenge?
Hiebert (CPC): do we even know what members are signed in at this time?
Szabo (chair, LPC): we'll check w/the Clerk. We will do a roll call. The question is: shall the decision of the chairman be sustained? Yes or No?
***Mulroney interrupting, saying that the wireless thing has nothing to do w/the mandate***
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, this point is not debatable, Mr. Mulroney. My decision is being challenged. (Roll call: CPCs all vote 'No,' and everyone else votes 'Yes.' Chairman's decision upheld and Mulroney has to answer Rodriguez's question about Wireless)
12:21 PM
Rodriguez (LPC): (repeating question about Wireless and whether BM met w/Bernier about this issue)
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: Mr. Bernier's father was a member of my caucus for 9 yrs. Very close to the family and I have been. When Maxime was elected, he communicated w/me for advice and counsel. I tried to help him along. When he was moved to Foreign Affairs, we had dinner in Montreal for a discussion of foreign policy issues and some larger perspective on the Can/US relationship and new trading initiatives...(really?! do tell!)
Szabo (chair, LPC): (interrupting) the question was about Wireless...you're on Foreign Affairs.
Del Mastro (CPC): Point of order!
(Szabo looks utterly exasperated)
Del Mastro (CPC): it's relevant to the question you've allowed. He's responding to what the meetings were about.
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'll allow it, but perhaps in the chronology it was asked--(Bernier's appointment to) Min. Industry came before Foreign Affairs. Please be cognisant of that.
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: my meetings w/him were largely about Foreign Affairs. I have no recollection of meeting w/him when he was Industry Min. No recollection of any discussion which bore directly on any file at the time. General in nature and designed to assist him in his political responsibilities in Canada and later, internationally, not on any specific file. I think I was asked if I introduced Bernier to Pierre Karl Peladeau--I said no, b/c he did not need me to introduce him to anybody.
Rodriguez (LPC): the question was broader than that, and didn't have to do with any specific meeting. I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Dhaliwal.
12:25 PM
Dhaliwal (LPC): I and many Canadians have never seen that amount of cash. How did you know that there were 75 K in each (envelope)? Did you count them?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: when I depd them into the safe, it was in bundles of 10, and one 5...when you say that...oh, it's ok, it was extraneous...(cuts self off)
Dhaliwal (LPC): can you show us with your hands, how thick the envelope was?
***laughter***
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: no I can't.
Dhaliwal (LPC): (laughing) we want to know (*shrugs* innocently). Was it an error or mistake to not know where the cash came from?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: that would be a legitimate question, if you had not talked w/Mr. Schreiber and he told you he didn't know where it came from---it was from various things that wound up in different accts. He had devised a system to ensure that no one else knew--everything was conducted in such a manner that it was secret. I had no idea, sir. I just thought I was dealing w/a legitimate businessman. In 1993. It's worth mentioning, in defense of my position, that he also told you at that time, that this money came from the BRITAIN acct, that was designed for Brian. Well we know that was a hoax. He denied the whole thing in 1999. So, sir, I don't have a clue where the money came from.
Dhaliwal (LPC): you didn't charge GST on the $225K and you are the father of imposing this tax on Canadians? (*snerk*)
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: the GST is a consumption tax that comes off at the border. And this was only for international work. The GST was not applicable. May I say in passing, how grateful I am to the Liberal party for your strong defense of the GST.
***laughter and applause***
Dhaliwal (LPC): I was meeting w/charities over the weekend and they asked me to ask you if you donated any of this money to any charities?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: (pointing at Dhaliwal) No, sir! At the time, I established scholarships in the name of my late parents at St. Francis Xavier, St. Thomas (Fredericton) and at Concordia in Montreal. And I financed all of those scholarships out of my own pocket.
Dhaliwal (LPC): you declared the income tax after KHS was arrested. Would you have declared the income tax if he had not been arrested?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: I don't know the answer to that, sir. Depends. If you look at the letters, in 2004, saying I was going to get the Nobel Peace Prize for the anti-obesity pasta business--who knows? Maybe we would have had ongoing meetings. But when he was arrested for corruption, bribery and tax evasion, obviously I realized that this wasn't the guy I thought I had been dealing with. It was time to bring it to a halt and resolve matters.
Coming up next: Part XI ("I had a wife and 4 children, and a mother to support"), or return to Part IX ("Comartin brings it!")
Photo credit: Icanhascheezburger
Never ask a man 'how big' it was
12:16 PM
Rodriguez (LPC): on the Wireless Spectrum issue, while he was Industry Minister, have you ever met w/him at all? In which city? Have you ever phoned him, or has he phoned you? Did you ever talk about wireless w/Maxime Bernier?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: (objecting-doesn't want to answer)
Szabo (chair, LPC): we already ruled on this, Mr. Mulroney, you have to answer.
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: I know, but I thought this would be overruled, b/c it has nothing to do w/our mandate. Please repeat it?
Rodriguez (LPC): (repeats the Wireless question)
***interruption***
Tilson (vice-chair, CPC): I'd like to challenge your ruling, Mr. Chairman. He's continuing on, w/this cross-examination...I challenge your ruling that he can continue on. It goes far beyond the mandate.
Szabo (chair, LPC): that's not debatable. Do members understand the challenge?
Hiebert (CPC): do we even know what members are signed in at this time?
Szabo (chair, LPC): we'll check w/the Clerk. We will do a roll call. The question is: shall the decision of the chairman be sustained? Yes or No?
***Mulroney interrupting, saying that the wireless thing has nothing to do w/the mandate***
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'm sorry, this point is not debatable, Mr. Mulroney. My decision is being challenged. (Roll call: CPCs all vote 'No,' and everyone else votes 'Yes.' Chairman's decision upheld and Mulroney has to answer Rodriguez's question about Wireless)
12:21 PM
Rodriguez (LPC): (repeating question about Wireless and whether BM met w/Bernier about this issue)
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: Mr. Bernier's father was a member of my caucus for 9 yrs. Very close to the family and I have been. When Maxime was elected, he communicated w/me for advice and counsel. I tried to help him along. When he was moved to Foreign Affairs, we had dinner in Montreal for a discussion of foreign policy issues and some larger perspective on the Can/US relationship and new trading initiatives...(really?! do tell!)
Szabo (chair, LPC): (interrupting) the question was about Wireless...you're on Foreign Affairs.
Del Mastro (CPC): Point of order!
(Szabo looks utterly exasperated)
Del Mastro (CPC): it's relevant to the question you've allowed. He's responding to what the meetings were about.
Szabo (chair, LPC): I'll allow it, but perhaps in the chronology it was asked--(Bernier's appointment to) Min. Industry came before Foreign Affairs. Please be cognisant of that.
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: my meetings w/him were largely about Foreign Affairs. I have no recollection of meeting w/him when he was Industry Min. No recollection of any discussion which bore directly on any file at the time. General in nature and designed to assist him in his political responsibilities in Canada and later, internationally, not on any specific file. I think I was asked if I introduced Bernier to Pierre Karl Peladeau--I said no, b/c he did not need me to introduce him to anybody.
Rodriguez (LPC): the question was broader than that, and didn't have to do with any specific meeting. I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Dhaliwal.
12:25 PM
Dhaliwal (LPC): I and many Canadians have never seen that amount of cash. How did you know that there were 75 K in each (envelope)? Did you count them?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: when I depd them into the safe, it was in bundles of 10, and one 5...when you say that...oh, it's ok, it was extraneous...(cuts self off)
Dhaliwal (LPC): can you show us with your hands, how thick the envelope was?
***laughter***
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: no I can't.
Dhaliwal (LPC): (laughing) we want to know (*shrugs* innocently). Was it an error or mistake to not know where the cash came from?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: that would be a legitimate question, if you had not talked w/Mr. Schreiber and he told you he didn't know where it came from---it was from various things that wound up in different accts. He had devised a system to ensure that no one else knew--everything was conducted in such a manner that it was secret. I had no idea, sir. I just thought I was dealing w/a legitimate businessman. In 1993. It's worth mentioning, in defense of my position, that he also told you at that time, that this money came from the BRITAIN acct, that was designed for Brian. Well we know that was a hoax. He denied the whole thing in 1999. So, sir, I don't have a clue where the money came from.
Dhaliwal (LPC): you didn't charge GST on the $225K and you are the father of imposing this tax on Canadians? (*snerk*)
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: the GST is a consumption tax that comes off at the border. And this was only for international work. The GST was not applicable. May I say in passing, how grateful I am to the Liberal party for your strong defense of the GST.
***laughter and applause***
Dhaliwal (LPC): I was meeting w/charities over the weekend and they asked me to ask you if you donated any of this money to any charities?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: (pointing at Dhaliwal) No, sir! At the time, I established scholarships in the name of my late parents at St. Francis Xavier, St. Thomas (Fredericton) and at Concordia in Montreal. And I financed all of those scholarships out of my own pocket.
Dhaliwal (LPC): you declared the income tax after KHS was arrested. Would you have declared the income tax if he had not been arrested?
Rt. Hon. B. Mulroney: I don't know the answer to that, sir. Depends. If you look at the letters, in 2004, saying I was going to get the Nobel Peace Prize for the anti-obesity pasta business--who knows? Maybe we would have had ongoing meetings. But when he was arrested for corruption, bribery and tax evasion, obviously I realized that this wasn't the guy I thought I had been dealing with. It was time to bring it to a halt and resolve matters.
Coming up next: Part XI ("I had a wife and 4 children, and a mother to support"), or return to Part IX ("Comartin brings it!")
Photo credit: Icanhascheezburger
No comments:
Post a Comment