Former Mulroney Chief of Staff Norman Spector presented himself to the Commons Ethics committee on February 5. As with last Fall's testimony, the following is NOT a transcript, so quote at your own risk ;) Time-stamps are approximate.
3:31 PM
Szabo (chair, LPC): (calls cmte to order) first witness is Norman Spector, former chief of staff to BM; in 1992 Ambassador to Israel and high-commissioner to Cyprus; later appointed to ACOA by Chrétien. On Dec 15, 2007, cmte gave me a list of witnesses to call, including yourself. Ask clerk to swear you in. (swearing in Spector) Thank you, sir. You know this matter is very serious. Hope you won't feel undue influence. Hope you can help us understand. Refusal to answer is not an option. As courtesy, don't speak too quickly (translators). Full stmt, then proceed to questions. Invite you to address cmte
Norman Spector: (there is music playing in the room. Cellphone ring-tone? Szabo annoyed...asks someone to "throw it on the ground") Thank you. I'm not delighted to be in Ottawa today. Not just the snow, etc, but about the climate as well: I left city in 96, following resignation from public service of Canada, in circumstances eerily parallel to my brief, but still shining moment w/Karlheinz Schreiber (KHS). With one difference: when presented w/facts, Brian Mulroney (BM) didn't hesitate to declare Bear Head Project (BHP) dead. In 96, had my deputy Min colleague at Public Works stood up to very same Minister that was applying pressure at ACOA, could have nipped in bud the sponsorship scandal. Efforts by your cmte are being frustrated by government (Harper), as Gomery reminded us on 2nd anniversary of his report.
Norman Spector: Canadians have seen how Canada really works: lobbyists, lobbying, power of PM and PMO. Also a story about media. Wonder if you'd have launched these hearings in 2001, when Moores still alive. Had the National Post not killed story of KHS cash payments--flew in face of everything we thought we knew about BM settlement. Maybe 3 yrs, had Kaplan been interviewed on CBC, which routinely feature far less sig books than "Secret Trial." Can you imagine paper in Canada killing sensational scoop on former PM. It boggles the mind. Don't get me started about journalism. I spend lots of time doing that on my website.
Norman Spector: first, on BHP. In 1995, I gave the RCMP a sworn stmt about what I knew of this project of KHS. Some lobbyists made a lot of money in 80s. Doucet had access to PMO. After he left PMO, still brought lobbyists to PMO. But they were not on the schedule and would have been unknown to me, unless I happened to chance upon them. This explains why BHP refused to die, even after BM killed it. As I wrote in Le Devoir, I can help you in ID'g large sources of cash taken to 24 Sussex Dr. Some are scratching their heads when they heard you'd asked ex-chef to testify. Understandable, in light of disclosures made over the years, by Francois Martin's vivid upstairs/downstairs gossip. The documents I brought today identify a more prosaic source of cash. As you can see, Mr M and his wife had an expensive lifestyle. I can understand why he'd be somewhat preoccupied about what life after PM would be like, and why he'd like to cater to the rich and powerful. I can provide anecdotes, like the ones in the Afterward of Kaplan's book, but one of which has never been reported. Keep your eye on the ball. Don't let this become Frank magazine.
3:40 PM
Norman Spector: around the end of BM's second term, Canada was rated the 5th least corrupt country in world. When Chrétien left, we were 12th. At end of Paul Martin, 14th. This town has a bipartisan problem, but could have bipartisan solution--of course there are 2 parties that have not been in power, and therefore not implicated in these scandals (BQ, NDP). Since 2006, Canada has climbed back to 9th place. As news out of Public Works last week suggested, we have a long way to go before best place in world is also the least corrupt place. In contrast to Martin, when sponsorship hit the fan, I have grave doubts that Harper wants Airbus (AB) answers. Have grave doubt that inquiry will discover where 10 mill in "Schreiber-gelde" ended up. Darker possibilities captured by a former Tory cabinet minister went to visit the home of Earnscliffe, then a Tory lobby firm, it may surprise you. "Why is it so much more lucrative to know Harvie André, then to be Harvie André?"
Norman Spector: We're here today b/c RCMP botched its AB investigation. Hope you'll examine special prosecutor system designed by Steven Owen in BC. Meanwhile, this wretched process is Canadians' best hope for getting bottom of this story, one that was ignored by MPs and suppressed to a large extent by members of the media. As semi-retired public servant, good to say no, when Kaplan asked for afterward. You've come to the table late, but late is better than never, unless it's simply to dine-out on partisan politics. You have all the power you need and M. Ménard, M. Coumartin have shown the way. You should not hesitate to subpoena tax and bank records and you'll start pressuring gov for KHS to spill beans, if he has any to spill.
3:44 PM
Thibault (LPC): Thank you. I know you've come a long way to inform Canadians. You said in Le Devoir article as in your column in Globe, that you can inform the cmte that you can tell us the source of the funds. Can we invite you to do that now, please?
Norman Spector: I said that I would be able to help you ID sources of the cash, taken to 24 Sussex. I've three documents, one package of docs, and one specific doc...I will give these to your clerks. Mr. M was being reimbursed 5K/month by PC Canada Fund for "expenses incurred as party leader." Sometimes we'd give this to Mrs. M in cash. Sometimes we'd send it to BM's accountant in Montreal. I wrote about this in Kaplan afterward, which explains why it wasn't front-page news in either paper, as the reporters from Devoir and Globe had read the afterward. First set of documents on reimbursement of personal expenses. Shortly before I left the PMO, I was told of a CCRA (old Revenue Canada) ruling defining reimbursements as non-taxable. Not income. In addition to that, it appears that BM was being reimbursed for "personal expenses" by PC Canada fund. No knowledge of any aspect of this relationship. But the document appears, on the face of it, it appears to indicate that he was reimbursed slightly more than 100K for the 9 mo period between Oct 86 and June 87.
Thibault (LPC): in cash?
Norman Spector: doesn't specify. On annual basis, amount to 135K/yr. Third doc is summary of inventory of PC Canada fund at 24 Sussex and at Harrington Lake and shows, around time of end of 1st term in office, fund had spent 136K on furnishings at Sussex and 53K on furnishings at Harrington Lake. Table those docs as well. The latter two docs are new. But as I wrote in afterward...
Thibault (LPC): at time you were Chief of Staff (CoS), were you aware of any other money...
Norman Spector: no, absolutely not
Thibault (LPC): you transfer any of these funds into bank accounts?
Norman Spector: cheques were written to CoS to PM, arrangement going back to BM's 1st CoS, as far as I know, it continued after I left, but arrangement was in place...cheque written to me in trust. Deposited or cashed, or transferred to accountant or Mrs. M
Thibault (LPC): You said in the afterward (to Kaplan's book) that you and your staff would pore over docs and receipts to see what was the expense re: office---was this for repayment by party or PMO budget?
Norman Spector: no, in reimbursement for expenses incurred as party leader. Had staff member (a public servant borrowed from Foreign Affairs) poring over this to look at these expenses, to figure out what was legit. Some submitted by Mrs M. He'd approve some but not others, and then we'd get reimbursed by party fund
Coming up next: Part II ("What's a nice hack like you doing in a place like this?")
Spector "Wall of Sound" postcard from efrank.ca
"Don't let this become Frank Magazine"
3:31 PM
Szabo (chair, LPC): (calls cmte to order) first witness is Norman Spector, former chief of staff to BM; in 1992 Ambassador to Israel and high-commissioner to Cyprus; later appointed to ACOA by Chrétien. On Dec 15, 2007, cmte gave me a list of witnesses to call, including yourself. Ask clerk to swear you in. (swearing in Spector) Thank you, sir. You know this matter is very serious. Hope you won't feel undue influence. Hope you can help us understand. Refusal to answer is not an option. As courtesy, don't speak too quickly (translators). Full stmt, then proceed to questions. Invite you to address cmte
Norman Spector: (there is music playing in the room. Cellphone ring-tone? Szabo annoyed...asks someone to "throw it on the ground") Thank you. I'm not delighted to be in Ottawa today. Not just the snow, etc, but about the climate as well: I left city in 96, following resignation from public service of Canada, in circumstances eerily parallel to my brief, but still shining moment w/Karlheinz Schreiber (KHS). With one difference: when presented w/facts, Brian Mulroney (BM) didn't hesitate to declare Bear Head Project (BHP) dead. In 96, had my deputy Min colleague at Public Works stood up to very same Minister that was applying pressure at ACOA, could have nipped in bud the sponsorship scandal. Efforts by your cmte are being frustrated by government (Harper), as Gomery reminded us on 2nd anniversary of his report.
Norman Spector: Canadians have seen how Canada really works: lobbyists, lobbying, power of PM and PMO. Also a story about media. Wonder if you'd have launched these hearings in 2001, when Moores still alive. Had the National Post not killed story of KHS cash payments--flew in face of everything we thought we knew about BM settlement. Maybe 3 yrs, had Kaplan been interviewed on CBC, which routinely feature far less sig books than "Secret Trial." Can you imagine paper in Canada killing sensational scoop on former PM. It boggles the mind. Don't get me started about journalism. I spend lots of time doing that on my website.
Norman Spector: first, on BHP. In 1995, I gave the RCMP a sworn stmt about what I knew of this project of KHS. Some lobbyists made a lot of money in 80s. Doucet had access to PMO. After he left PMO, still brought lobbyists to PMO. But they were not on the schedule and would have been unknown to me, unless I happened to chance upon them. This explains why BHP refused to die, even after BM killed it. As I wrote in Le Devoir, I can help you in ID'g large sources of cash taken to 24 Sussex Dr. Some are scratching their heads when they heard you'd asked ex-chef to testify. Understandable, in light of disclosures made over the years, by Francois Martin's vivid upstairs/downstairs gossip. The documents I brought today identify a more prosaic source of cash. As you can see, Mr M and his wife had an expensive lifestyle. I can understand why he'd be somewhat preoccupied about what life after PM would be like, and why he'd like to cater to the rich and powerful. I can provide anecdotes, like the ones in the Afterward of Kaplan's book, but one of which has never been reported. Keep your eye on the ball. Don't let this become Frank magazine.
3:40 PM
Norman Spector: around the end of BM's second term, Canada was rated the 5th least corrupt country in world. When Chrétien left, we were 12th. At end of Paul Martin, 14th. This town has a bipartisan problem, but could have bipartisan solution--of course there are 2 parties that have not been in power, and therefore not implicated in these scandals (BQ, NDP). Since 2006, Canada has climbed back to 9th place. As news out of Public Works last week suggested, we have a long way to go before best place in world is also the least corrupt place. In contrast to Martin, when sponsorship hit the fan, I have grave doubts that Harper wants Airbus (AB) answers. Have grave doubt that inquiry will discover where 10 mill in "Schreiber-gelde" ended up. Darker possibilities captured by a former Tory cabinet minister went to visit the home of Earnscliffe, then a Tory lobby firm, it may surprise you. "Why is it so much more lucrative to know Harvie André, then to be Harvie André?"
Norman Spector: We're here today b/c RCMP botched its AB investigation. Hope you'll examine special prosecutor system designed by Steven Owen in BC. Meanwhile, this wretched process is Canadians' best hope for getting bottom of this story, one that was ignored by MPs and suppressed to a large extent by members of the media. As semi-retired public servant, good to say no, when Kaplan asked for afterward. You've come to the table late, but late is better than never, unless it's simply to dine-out on partisan politics. You have all the power you need and M. Ménard, M. Coumartin have shown the way. You should not hesitate to subpoena tax and bank records and you'll start pressuring gov for KHS to spill beans, if he has any to spill.
3:44 PM
Thibault (LPC): Thank you. I know you've come a long way to inform Canadians. You said in Le Devoir article as in your column in Globe, that you can inform the cmte that you can tell us the source of the funds. Can we invite you to do that now, please?
Norman Spector: I said that I would be able to help you ID sources of the cash, taken to 24 Sussex. I've three documents, one package of docs, and one specific doc...I will give these to your clerks. Mr. M was being reimbursed 5K/month by PC Canada Fund for "expenses incurred as party leader." Sometimes we'd give this to Mrs. M in cash. Sometimes we'd send it to BM's accountant in Montreal. I wrote about this in Kaplan afterward, which explains why it wasn't front-page news in either paper, as the reporters from Devoir and Globe had read the afterward. First set of documents on reimbursement of personal expenses. Shortly before I left the PMO, I was told of a CCRA (old Revenue Canada) ruling defining reimbursements as non-taxable. Not income. In addition to that, it appears that BM was being reimbursed for "personal expenses" by PC Canada fund. No knowledge of any aspect of this relationship. But the document appears, on the face of it, it appears to indicate that he was reimbursed slightly more than 100K for the 9 mo period between Oct 86 and June 87.
Thibault (LPC): in cash?
Norman Spector: doesn't specify. On annual basis, amount to 135K/yr. Third doc is summary of inventory of PC Canada fund at 24 Sussex and at Harrington Lake and shows, around time of end of 1st term in office, fund had spent 136K on furnishings at Sussex and 53K on furnishings at Harrington Lake. Table those docs as well. The latter two docs are new. But as I wrote in afterward...
Thibault (LPC): at time you were Chief of Staff (CoS), were you aware of any other money...
Norman Spector: no, absolutely not
Thibault (LPC): you transfer any of these funds into bank accounts?
Norman Spector: cheques were written to CoS to PM, arrangement going back to BM's 1st CoS, as far as I know, it continued after I left, but arrangement was in place...cheque written to me in trust. Deposited or cashed, or transferred to accountant or Mrs. M
Thibault (LPC): You said in the afterward (to Kaplan's book) that you and your staff would pore over docs and receipts to see what was the expense re: office---was this for repayment by party or PMO budget?
Norman Spector: no, in reimbursement for expenses incurred as party leader. Had staff member (a public servant borrowed from Foreign Affairs) poring over this to look at these expenses, to figure out what was legit. Some submitted by Mrs M. He'd approve some but not others, and then we'd get reimbursed by party fund
Coming up next: Part II ("What's a nice hack like you doing in a place like this?")
Spector "Wall of Sound" postcard from efrank.ca
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